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Post by Sabine on Apr 17, 2006 20:50:08 GMT 1
Haha, it´s fantastic what you say Caro. And, by the way, I love Ivan too, but, don´t tell Swanny ! I´ve said so much about this book so far, but I haven´t said anything about its content. Well, like Caro I also loved it from the beginning to the end, but my book has 330 pages (I´m really wondering, if there might be any differences between the English and the American version, though I don´t think so and I don´t hope so). For me there was nothing in it that could have been described or said in a shorter way, it´s just perfect. I really loved the scene with the Jinny Joes (haha, it reminded me of that day in Ireland, when I learned that these yellow flowers are called dandelions in English, but I had forgotten about that secene, until the book reminded me of it again, so thanks for that!!!) and I really began thinking about all that wishing. I have to admit that I never thought that it might take a wish of a falling star 20 years to come down to the earth to be fulfilled by Oscar in the wish department. Haha, I really love this part of the book. Cecelia invented a whole world of its own in this book and that´s just wonderful.
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Post by SingleTunePoet on Apr 17, 2006 22:11:10 GMT 1
Girls? Am I talking Chinese or what? I never ever said that I DON´T like Ivan. Where do you get that from? I only stated that I do not like him that much anymore. I mean, he starts out as this really wonderful, lovable, complete character and then he falls in love with Elizabeth and everything that I liked so much about the way he TALKS/THINKS is ruined and I had such a bad feeling about that. Because, starting then, I just pity him. I mean, how good is that when you can only pity a person? Of corrs you have to like a person to pity him but...it´s just so sad. I lost my "love" into Ivan at some point which made me really sad. And still, girls, be proud of me, I mean, for the first time ever I like one of the main characters, which is ELizabeth in this case. You both know how I usually never like the main characters. But Elizabeth just got me because I could find so much about myself and my attitude towards life in Elizabeth. The book opened my eyes all over again and time and again I found myself realizing things that I never noticed before. But the book also offers little tips and nice and lovely statements that show you the way into a better direction or better way of thinking and seeing life and the people and places within it. And I love the whole wishing department story within. She includes all kinds of ways that people make wishes...I forgot that as a kid we used to make those Jinny Joe wishes. So it was wonderful to be remembered of that. As for a shooting star wish to maybe take 20 years (You know, also, Oscar can´t work 24 hours a day, right? Haha.), I would have never guessed. Seeing that I was a falling star wish that my mother made and I did not take 20 years to finally set foot into this world, hihi. My favorite scene from the book will always be the one when ELizabeth runs home, at night, in the rain, calling "Daddy" and being held in his arms after such a long time. I cried my heard out. But both of you know that already. Yes, I know, I tend to like the parts most that others don´t like most. But I believe this scene carries so much emotion with it and what´s more it captures so much of Elizabeth´s change and realisation of things.
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Post by Sabine on Apr 18, 2006 9:51:01 GMT 1
And still, girls, be proud of me, I mean, for the first time ever I like one of the main characters, which is ELizabeth in this case. You both know how I usually never like the main characters. But Elizabeth just got me because I could find so much about myself and my attitude towards life in Elizabeth. The book opened my eyes all over again and time and again I found myself realizing things that I never noticed before. But the book also offers little tips and nice and lovely statements that show you the way into a better direction or better way of thinking and seeing life and the people and places within it. Yes, Swanny I am proud of you, haha. You really like the main character of the book, haha, that´s really a new thing, haha Swanny and I already talked about it, this book really opened our eyes concerning ourselves, as we both share some similarities with Elizabeth´s character. That was kind of scary, on reading the book I sometimes stopped, read the paragraph again and thought, "Wow, this is similar to what you did in the past". And that didn´t happen only one time, it happened often. By the way, while reading the book, I often thought that I knew this Ivan-thing, invisible or visible, etc. from somewhere. It reminds me a lot of the movie "City of angels". Don´t you think so too? I mean, all this stuff with being able to see someone and not being able to, believing and not believing, it´s really similar to the story of the movie.
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Post by Sabine on Apr 18, 2006 9:54:36 GMT 1
Ok, girls, here´s a question for you, and of corrs for all the others as well:
What do you think the title "If you could see me now" refers to?
In my opinion it either refers to Elizabeth wanting to show her mother how she managed her life in the end of the book. That she wants to say: "Mum, look how everything turned out for me.". But, that´s probably a creation of my own mind, so I think that it´s more likely to mean, that Elizabeth or anybody else having a friend like Ivan wants to be able to see him, in certain situations.
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Post by SingleTunePoet on Apr 18, 2006 11:13:12 GMT 1
By the way, while reading the book, I often thought that I knew this Ivan-thing, invisible or visible, etc. from somewhere. It reminds me a lot of the movie "City of angels". Don´t you think so too? I mean, all this stuff with being able to see someone and not being able to, believing and not believing, it´s really similar to the story of the movie. Oh no, of course I don´t recall the content of the movie now. I remember seeing it and loving it and I think it had a tragical end...and I remember what it was about but, oh no, I get all these little pictures in my head but I don´t really recall the whole content and message of the movie at this very moment. Sorry. My mother wanted to know what I was reading and so I told her the story of the book and she said: "You know what that reminds me of? There was this movie with Whoopi Goldberg and Gérard Depardieu..." And I had to laugh because I suddenly remembered this movie. "Bogus" with little Haley Joel Osment. And when you think about the plot then you can truely find some similarities. Seven year-old Albert is the son of a Las Vegas circus performer. When she is killed in a car wreck, Albert is sent to live with his mother's foster sister, Harriet Franklin, a no-nonsense businesswoman struggling in New Jersey. Albert hates it with the dour Harriet, but takes refuge in the company of Bogus, a flamboyant, gentle, loving, and altogether imaginary Frenchman. With Bogus's help, Albert can perhaps come to terms with his mother's death, and Harriet with her own loss of childhood innocence.Of course Bogus is an invisible friend (Or isn´t he?) and at some point Harriet can see him as well! Okay, here goes my theory. Actually I have more than just one theory because the title may refer to so many things and I guess Cecilia Ahern wants us to figure out for ourselves which is the theory that fits best for us. 1. I like that fact how the title plays with the situation in the book. It is for most a sentence that could well be said by those "imaginary" friends. However, none of them ever speaks it. It´s rather something they think but even that is not shown. It´s rather something they all know about each other and it dwells somewhere between the lines. How about Opal for example? I am very sure she must have that sentence on her mind when Geoffrey does not see her even in his last hours (Only in the very end he catches a last glimpse of his true love.). 2. Sabine´s theory! It´s something that I thought of as well. Elizabeth goes through a whole cascade of emotions and changes in a very short while and she learns the truth about her past and her family and in the end, her problems are not truely solved but she´s happy and at ease with things and the people around her. And though she learned the truth about her mother it doesn´t seem like she´s bitter about it. All her life, I guess, she was longing for her mother and for her to make her days brighter and now she sees that she managed it without her as well. "Take a look at me, mother, things aren´t that bad after all, life can be good." These are, as I believe the two main theories that come to mind after reading the book. There are more "If you could see me now" moments and relationships captured in the book though which is only natural because all of us have our "If you could see me now" relationships going on. They are just so present in our lives that you find them everywhere. It´s the same with this book, I think.
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Post by snookyjojo on Apr 18, 2006 14:50:35 GMT 1
WOW! Girls, my god! One day I am not online and you over-post the whole thread hahaha! I don't know where to start, haha. Okay, I'll start with teh "if you could see me now" title thing. I think it's all possible what you said. Elizabeth and her mom, everybody else in the book. Though I think that the "everyone in the book"-theory would be my theory,too. I mean, there are moments in the book everybody imagines and seems to talk to herself saying: "if you could see me now"! I mean a special example is the Elizabeth-Mother example...then Ivan-Elizabeth...also Luke who sometimes seems to want to be seen by Elizabeth and so on. But I think the major "if you could see"s are ELIZABETH-MOTHER and IVAN-ELIZABETH. my opinion okay, what else did you write? IVAN IS GREAT! haha You know what i like about the book most? You start to believe again. Honestly! You start to close your eyes and make a wish if you saw a falling star, you start to try to catch Jinny Joes and make your wish and BELIEVE that they'll come true! You start to believe, and with me believing makes me feel good! It makes me see the positive sides, not everything is as bad as it appears first...and so on. The book really reminded me of that again. it made me feel really good! AHm...recalling the book to "City of angels"...ha! Could be possible. there are similarities...buit I like the end of the book much more than the one of the film ( I cried my heart out when I saw the film! ah!). And the other one swanny mentioned, duino the film but hey! Funny, maybe Cecelia Ahern saw that movie! hehehe. hey, did you do the same after you read the book? haha...I started to think of an invisible friend I once had or did I have one or not and so on. hahaha. Then Bob came to my mind! hahaha. That's a looong story! When I was a kid...a real small one...3 or 4 years old I had my special friend. hahaha. Everytime I destroyed something or did something wrong...and my parents asked me if that was me...no! It wasn't me! of corrs not! It was Bob! Always Bob! hahahaha. And it still is Bob! hahaha, You can ask daniel, he knows what I'm talking about! In russian lessons two weeks ago, we sat around with some friends during the break. We put our tables together so we sat in a circle. When the break was over one table remained standing there alone...with its chair...nobody moved it and I didn't even realise that the table was exactly next to mine. My teacher...she's a bit strange, asked me whom's table that was...and I wasn't really listening to what she said and simply said "it's bob, Bob sits at the table". She looked at me confused...and said: "okay, then, take your friend out of the room and place the table where it has to be placed!" ah! hahaha, I thought this can't be! because just the night before i finished with the book! hahahahahaha ;D Funny, it made me smile the whole day! Guess we all have our little friends, don't we? And our wishes...and everything....but now I really woke up remembering them again! TA-DA! yeah! Thanks to Cecelia! hihihi And btw, I don't think that there's a better title than "if you could see me now" and you know what I like even more? HUGH JACKMAN! AH! HUGH JACKMAN! He's going to play Ivan, in the movie based on the book! YAY!
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Post by SingleTunePoet on Apr 18, 2006 15:44:51 GMT 1
As for the imaginary friend....I don´t ever recall having a real imaginary friend but I recall that as a kid I always made up an older sister for me because I wanted to have one so bady. And I pretended her spirit to be around whenever I was alone...so maybe that´s something like that? I don´t know.
The believing, yes. It´s funny how this little book changed so much in my head in the last days...it´s just amazing that it has such a huge impact on me. Cecilia explains it all with little, simple words but those words are oh so true! It´s like this book came along just to help me right now. It changes a lot if you change your view of things...and usually I hate changes, so that means a lot. I remember making falling star wishes when I was younger and I believed in them but I forgot about them. When I read the book now, suddenly a lot of my wishes came to my head again (Yes, I saw quite a lot falling stars when I was younger. Somehow, however, I never saw one in a couple of years now.). And to my amazement I had to find out, that a lot of those wishes came true (so far). This realisation struck me. And it feels kind of weird but it gives you a whole new positive attitude towards your every-other-day life.
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Post by snookyjojo on Apr 18, 2006 19:26:26 GMT 1
Yep! That's true...
for the imaginary friend...now that you say it i remember imagining that I used to think that my cuddly toys are alive! hahaha. My brother and I gave them names and we had to feed them, play with them so they gave us great company at night, those were really cute times. hihi.
Now girls! Which part exactly is your favourite part? We have three categories: 1.Funniest 2.saddest 3.most touching moment?
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Post by SingleTunePoet on Apr 18, 2006 21:29:36 GMT 1
As a child I was of the strong believe that my toys and dolls etc were alive. Yes, BUT however they´d never show it to me. They´d only move when I was out of the room or had my back turned to them or when I was asleep. I was very sure of that! Haha, Caro, I had forgotten about that one, thanks for reminding me.
Okay, favorite scenes:
1. Funniest: "A ghastly mur-dare `as taken place in your jardin." - "Am I a suspect?"- "At zis stage of the investi-gay-c-on, everyone is a suspect." (Do I have to say more?)
2. Saddest: Geoffrey dying while Opal holds his hand. And when it first happens that Elizabeth can´t see Ivan anymore.
3. Most touching one: Elizabeth runnin home to her "daddy" and being held in his arms. But there are sooooo much more scenes...
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Post by Sabine on Apr 18, 2006 22:00:45 GMT 1
Ok, now I´ve made up my mind about what you´ve written and so I can reply to it now. First of all, the content of "City of Angels": The movie is about angels, that are on the earth to fulfill a certain job, for example, the main character of the angels (called Seth and played by Nicolas Cage) has the job to accompany people who are about to die to heaven. But, the angels can´t be seen by the people, only by the people who are dying. When Seth has to accompany a man, that is about to die during an operation, he falls in love with the doctor, who was operating the man. (The doctor is played by Meg Ryan.) Seth tries to be together with her as much as possible, but normally she can´t see him. Then, one day he manages that she can see him, by his own power of thinking (he finds out, that if he wants the people to see him, they can see him) and she also falls in love with him, too. But, as he´s an angel, he can´t taste anything, like food and he also can´t feel anything. He feels love, but he doesn´t feel her. He can be together with her and love her, but that´s just not enough for him, so he decides to fall. By falling from a very high building, angels can become human beings again. So, he falls and then they come together and he can feel her. They are happily ever after, but then, the next morning, she dies in an accident. I really love the movie and it´s quite hard for me to describe it in such a short way (yes, that´s a short description). I could recall the whole movie, because I know it by heart. It was the first movie ever, that I really loved and that I told everyone about. Now, what are the similarities between the book and the movie? First, of course, Ivan´s role is similar to Seth´s. 1. They are both "heavenly creatures", in the broader sense, and they both have to fulfill a certain job in the real world/on earth. The difference lies in the type of the job. Seth accompanies dying people and Ivan helps people to solve their problems and to improve their lifes. 2. They both fall in love with a "normal" person, but under these circumstances it can´t work for either of them. 3. They both can´t be seen by the normal people, in Seth´s case he can make the people see him and in Ivan´s case he can only be seen, if the people need him. 4. They both live an eternal life. 5. In both, the movie and the book, there are many of these "creatures" (angels and best friends), it´s a complete concept/world that has been created for the plot to work. There are much more similarities, I´m sure about that, but at the moment, they are the only ones I can think of. If I find out more, I´ll add them.
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Post by Sabine on Apr 18, 2006 22:04:18 GMT 1
At first I have to apologize, because now there will come several posts by me, but that´s necessary, because otherwise I will get too confused and therefore I will answer your posts bit by bit, so, sorry for that.
Of course I know Bogus. Yes, I still have the boy´s face in my mind. I was so sad, when I only saw it´s face. Oh my god, it´s such a sad movie.
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Post by Sabine on Apr 18, 2006 22:34:19 GMT 1
Referring to your theories. I can only agree with what you´ve written. There are many ways to interpret the title, but I think we all got it quite right. And, Swanny and I have already discussed that, we are of the opinion, that Cecelia intented to make the people who read her books think about what she´s written. Ok, maybe she didn´t intent to make them think about it as much as we do, but, well, it just comes floating out of my mind and I can´t do anything against it. I think, what I´ve written above about the interview with Cecelia confirms that too. When she says that she takes it as her literary commission, to improve the world by her books, I think that also refers to making the people think about her books. Ah, the believing. I have to say, that I think, that I never stopped believing. I always believed in wishes from falling stars, etc. I also believed in the theory that you can make a wish, when you have sneezed 3 times in a row, and of course that you can make a wish, when you have lost an eyelash. But, I never knew about this Jinny Joe wishes. Never, although I have loved to make the Jinny Joe seeds fly. I always did that when I was a child, and I still do it, when I get to see a dandelion now. Oh my god, I could have made so many wishes all my life, but I never knew What I really like, and what makes me believe even more is the story that´s webbed around all this wish making, with Oscar and the wish department and all that stuff. Ok, then, the imaginary friends, or invisible friends, I never had such friends. Of course I´ve also played with my cuddly toys and acted as if they were real animals, but for me it was just a game and I never thought of them as real, like you did. So, that´s something that didn´t take place during my childhood. All my life I have been such a realistic person, even as a child, that might be a reason for that. I can´t believe how much this book makes us all think about life and the world, etc. I really wish Cecelia would know that, I think she would be really proud. And what also leaves me stunned is, how much we all seem to have in common with the characters of the book and how much the book can therefore help us with our own lives. At the moment I´d love to read the book again and again and again, but I know that I just would be sad while reading it, because I already know what will happen. It´s just that I so much want the story to go on and that I don´t want to leave this world of the book now.
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Post by SingleTunePoet on Apr 19, 2006 15:54:58 GMT 1
Forgive me, I forgot about the eylash wish making theory. For I think I should mention that that´s something I still do, every time I lose an eyelash. As for the sneezing…you can make a wish when you sneezed three times in a row? I was told that when you sneeze three times in a row that means that you have a crush on someone. Haha. Hmhm, Cecilia surely succeeded in making us think about this book a lot and therefore thinking about the way we lead our lives and how we could imrove even without making changes but maybe just by changing our point of view a little. I have no idea whether the book has such a huge impact on the other readers as well. I don´t know. A lot of people merely read without thinking; they want the entertainment. So that limits it to those people who read and let the words fill their heads and work their magic there. And then one would have to limit it again to those who have something in common with the characters and then one would have to limit…what the heck am I doing here? There is no need to explain this after all, haha. I am sure you know what I am talking about anyway. But I believe tah ta lot of people learn from this book, maybe they just do not talk about it that much. Then, thanks for the content of “City of angels”! Yes, I think I recall the movie better now and I was right about the end of that movie after all. I thought that she died once he fell. It´s just too tragic to comprehend. And there really are so many similarities, as captured by Sabine. Though I think that also Ivan at least THINKS he has the ability to make people see him if he wants them to see him. Seeing that he also somehow made Elizabeth see him. Yes, it´s true, the main reason she sees Ivan is that she needs him but if it would not have been for him feeling so drawn to her and staying around that much, she probably would have never seen him.
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Post by snookyjojo on Apr 20, 2006 18:09:54 GMT 1
*sobsob* (imagening Elizabeth not seeing Ivan ever again ) *sobsob* Oh, wow...girls...you know what I notice what Cecelia did with you both? She totally brainwashed you! You write as much as i never saw you write before!! WOW!...If I'm gonna see her...somewhere I'll tell her that she made two strange girls just type and type and type, hahaha.
Was there actually aaaaanything you didn't like about the book? the content I mean? I mean something you really didn't want to happen that way?
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Post by Sabine on Apr 20, 2006 22:42:57 GMT 1
Haha, she brainwashed us? Yes, Swanny and I have a new favourite topic to talk about and yes, we´ve never typed as much before, hihi. That´s another thing the book did to us. It made us type more. Wow, Caro, that´s a tough question. I have never thought about that before. Well, actually, while reading I never thought that I didn´t want anything that was happening there to happen in a different way. Sometime´s it´s like that, I really know what you mean. When you´re watching TV, or when you´re reading a book you go like: Oh no, don´t do that, I really don´t want that to happen, etc. But, in this book I never got that feeling, at least not while I was reading it. With hindsight, I also didn´t find anything, that I want to be changed. So, I guess, to cut a long story short, the answer to that question would be no. ;D
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